朝鲜战争中中国军队的战斗力!外国网友:不得不承认,德国士兵比美国和苏联士兵都要强,但中国士兵比德国人更强!

2022.5.13 发布在 世界看中国 栏目

朝鲜战争中中国军队的战斗力!外国网友:不得不承认,德国士兵比美国和苏联士兵都要强,但中国士兵比德国人更强! 世界看中国-第1张

朝鲜战争中中国军队的战斗力!外国网友:不得不承认,德国士兵比美国和苏联士兵都要强,但中国士兵比德国人更强! 世界看中国-第2张

 

David Urmaster,Chief Sex Therapist(2012-present)

Such a question reflects that the questioner is clearly devoid of the some of the most basic knowledge about how the Chinese army actually fought during the Korean War.The short answer to your question is:the UN forces led by the U.S.could not have held off the Chinese.The longer answer is as follows:
The Chinese,especially their infantry,in the Korean War fought better than the German infantry did in WWII,not accordi ng to me,but according to General Sir Farrar-Hockley,former Commander-in-Chief of NATO’s Allied Forces Northern Europe ho had been a veteran of both WWII and the Korean War,and a POW during the Korean War.In his memoir titled”The BritishPart In The Korean War”,he had this to say about the Chinese soldiers in the Korean War:”Having fought in both WWII andthe Korean War,I have witnessed first-hand how the German,American,Soviet,and Chinese soldiers fought.I have to admi t that German soldiers were superior to those of both the Americans and the Soviets.But Chinese soldiers were superior to those of the Germans.
The Chinese won because of absolutely brilliant and unique strategy and tactics combined with unrivalled discipline and a will of steel that was tougher than nails,unlike any of their opponents.
It is an ignorant stereotype that they used”human wave tactics”.For example,the Chinese soldiers never charged in”hum an waves”,but instead formed three-man squads in charges.If they had depended on manpower and”human wave tactics”,ther they would not have incurred only 17ik lives lost,according to official U.S.military estimates,throughout the more than3-year-long war against the overwhelming odds of fighting the 18-nation U.N.alliance led by the world’s only Superpowerwhich had total technological superiority and dominance of all of land,air,and sea,virtually unlimited supplies,as we Il as manpower that totaled more than i million troops in the world’s harshest terrain and climate where the extremely col d and bitter Korean winters were unlike any other.
For perspective,in WW1,60,000 British troops were killed in only one day of fighting when they used a real human wave t actic against the Germans,even though the British had been more or less equally well-armed as their German opponents.Yet,despite having been often outnumbered,vastly outclassed technologically,vastly outgunned and outsupplied,and havi ng often lacked enough food,clothing and supplies just to protect themselves from the harsh wintry elements,while also 1acking almost any heavy weaponry until very late in the war except for what they were able to captured from the enemy,the Chinese PVA(People’s Volunteer Army),which was one of the most backward peasant armies from one of the poorest nations in the world,still was able to deal defeat after defeat to the U.S.-led 18-nation coalition,pushing the alliance back from near the Yalu River all the way down the peninsula and across the 38th and 37th parallels,and even capturing the South Korean capital city of Seoul several times.
This was why the Korean War is known in U.S.history as”The Forgotten War”,because it was the first time that the U.S.was not able to win,despite having had vastly overwhelming advantages in all aspects of power metrics against an enemy that could not have looked more backward and pathetic.There’s so much that could be written and listed about the war that i llustrates why the Chinese were still able to prevail,and none of it having to do with”manpower”.
On the other hand,real human wave tactics were actually used by the U.S.side at such pivotal battles as Shang Gan Ling,where record-setting infantry feats of world military history were made by many Chinese soldiers like Hu Xiu Dao who single-handedly defended an important hill,killing more than 280 American soldiers in the process,after his fellow soldiers in the company had been killed in an American airstrike and artillery barrage.Even the American media at the time branded him a”murderous monster”.Similar unprecedented and still unrivalled kill-ratio world records of military history set by the Chinese against the American and U.N forces during the Korean War,like that of Gao Shou Yu who also single-handedly defended three different garrison bases,killing more than 120 U.S.troops single-handedly,while mainly using weapons captured from fallen enemy soldiers,after his fellow soldiers in the company had perished in a bombing attack,were aplenty.
这样的问题反映出提问者显然对中国军队在朝鲜战争中的实际作战缺乏一些最基本的了解。你的问题的简单答案是:以美国为首的联合国军不可能阻挡中国。
较长的答案如下:
中国人,特别是他们的步兵,在朝鲜战争中比德国步兵在二战中打得更好,这不是我说的,而是北约盟军北欧前总司令法拉霍克利爵士说的,他曾是二战和朝鲜战争中的老兵,在朝鲜战场上做过战俘。在他的回忆录《英国在朝鲜战争中的角色》中,他对参加朝鲜战争的中国士兵有这样的评价:“我参加过二战和朝鲜战争,亲眼目睹过德国、美国、苏联和中国士兵的战斗。我不得不承认,德国士兵比美国和苏联士兵都要强,但中国士兵比德国人更强。
中国人之所以获胜,是因为与他们的对手不同,他们的战略战术绝妙独特,纪律严明,以及拥有比钉子还硬的钢铁意志。
有人说他们使用“人海战术”,这是一种无知的刻板印象。中国士兵从来不在“人海”中冲锋,而是会组成了三个人配合的冲锋队。如果他们依靠“人海战术”,那么根据美国军方的官方估计,在长达3年多的战争中,在与由世界上唯一的超级大国领导的18国联盟进行殊死斗争中(这个超级大国拥有完整的技术优势和对所有陆地、空中和海洋的支配权,几乎拥有无限的供应,以及在世界上最恶劣的地形和气候下总计超过100万军队的人力),再加上朝鲜极为寒冷的冬天,他们不会只损失17.1万条生命。
我们可以换个视角,在第一次世界大战中,尽管英国人的武器或多或少和他们的德国对手一样精良,但当时他们对德国人使用了真正的人海战术,这导致仅在一天的战斗中就有6万英军阵亡。
然而,尽管中国人民志愿军是世界上最贫穷的国家之一的最落后的农民军队,尽管他们经常以寡敌众,在技术上远远落后,在装备和供应上都远远不足,而且常常缺乏足够的食物、衣服和补给来保护自己不受严酷的冬季气候的影响,同时除了他们能够从敌人手中夺取的外,直到战争后期之前他们都没有任何重武器。但他们依然能够一次又一次地战胜由美国领导的18国联军,把联合国军从鸭绿江附近一路推向半岛,越过三八线和三七线,甚至数次占领南朝鲜首都首尔。
这就是为什么朝鲜战争在美国历史上被称为“被遗忘的战争”,因为尽管它在各个方面都拥有对付一个看起来非常落后和可怜的敌人的压倒性的优势,但这是美国第一次未能取得胜利的战争。关于这场战争,有太多关于为什么中国人仍然能够获胜的东西可以列出,而这些都与“人力”无关。
另一方面,在上甘岭等关键战役中,美军实际上使用了真正的人海战术。在战友在美军的空袭和炮击中丧生之后,像胡修道这样的中国士兵单枪匹马地保卫了一座重要的山丘,他在这一过程中杀死了280多名美军士兵,创造了世界军事史上创纪录的步兵壮举。就连当时的美国媒体也给他贴上了“杀人魔王”的标签。在朝鲜战争期间,中国人对美国和联合国军队创造了很多类似的史无前例和无与伦比的世界军事史上的杀戮率记录,比如高守宇,在连队的战友们在一次轰炸中丧生后,他主要使用从倒下的敌军士兵手中缴获的武器单枪匹马保卫了三个不同的驻军阵地并杀死了120多名美国士兵。

Nick William,B.A.History&Education,Wittenberg University(2019)

Originally Answered:What if the Korean War was fought to the bitter end,with no sign of compromise or intent to ceasefi re on either side?
In that case the world would lament dearly.Inevitably a total war from the UN forces and China would have eventually dra wn in the rest of the world and we would have ended up in wW3.
NATO/UN would have moved upinto China eventually,either by pushing the Chinese army back or,if that was not feasible,at least through large scale bombing campaigns in the same vein as the massive industrial bombing in WW2.Russia would hav e moved to support it’s ally because it couldn’t afford to lose Communist China,everyone ends up at war,and eventually MacArthur the madman(I’m assuming that if America was willing to fight to the bitter end then it wouldn’t have fired M acArthur)drops the A-bomb and the war goes atomic.Luckily nuclear missiles don’t exist yet so we may not have M.A.D.oc cur,but the death toll due to atomic fire would still be vast.Ultimately tens of millions die by the end of the fighting tears and blood flow like rivers,and the world is a much worse place.
I think the UN forces would have defeated the Communists eventually,for the same reason the allies won WW2,which is gre ater industrial and logistical strength,but would it really be worth the sacrifices necessary to achieve?
如果那样的话,全世界都会悲痛万分。不可避免的是,联合国军和中国的全面战争最终会把世界其他地区牵扯进来,我们最终会陷入第三次世界大战。
北约/联合国最终会进入中国,要么是通过将中国军队击退,要么(如果无法击退中国军队)至少是通过与二战中大规模轰炸类似的轰炸行动。俄罗斯会采取行动支持自己的盟友,因为它无法承受失去共产主义中国的后果,每个国家都会陷入战争,最终疯狂的麦克阿瑟(我认为,如果美国愿意战斗到底,它就不会解雇麦克阿瑟)会投下原子弹,战争将升级为核战争。幸运的是,当时核导弹还不存在,所以我们可能不会有相互保证毁灭(MA.D.)的情况出现,但由原子弹造成的死亡人数仍将十分巨大,最终,数千万人会在战斗结束时死亡,泪水和鲜血将会如河流般流消,世界将变得更加糟糕。
我认为联合国军最终会赢,这与盟国赢得第二次世界大战的原因是一样的,因为它们拥有更强的工业和后勤实力,但真的值得为此付出这样的牺牲吗?

Edgar D.McDonald II,former Corrections,Parole Probation,Investigations at California(1973-2001)

Originally Answered:What if the Korean War was fought to the bitter end,with no sign of compromise or intent to ceasefi re on either side?
For that to happen both Truman and Stalin would have been willing to risk WW3.
That was very unlikely.
Stalin could only hit Western Europe with Nukes at the time.So if push came to shove,he would have lost a number of cit ies in exchange for some in Western Europe.
That would have left the US Homeland intact.That wouldn’t be a very good trade at the time.
The US would have,and did hear from the governments of France and the UK,that they really did NOT want Truman to use Nu kes because they would suffer the consequences.
To push the war to its bitter conclusion would have resulted in losses that were unacceptable for either nation at the ti me.
This was just the first example as how the presence of nuclear weapons has resulted in much less open war and losses,but more proxy and asymmetric wars.The good news is the body count is way down looking at 1945 to present.
如果这变成现实,杜鲁门和斯大林都需要愿意冒着第三次世界大战的风险。
但这不太可能发生。
斯大林的核武器只能打到西欧。因此,如果情况危急,他将失去一些城市,以换取西欧的一些城市。
但美国的国土将完好无损,那在当时对苏联来说不是一笔很好的交易。
美国也确实从法国和英国政府那里听到了它们不希望杜鲁门使用核武器的声音,因为它们将承担后果。
将战争推向痛苦的结局会导致当时任何一个国家都无法接受的损失。
这是第一个说明核武器的存在将导致更少的公开战争和损失,以及更多的代理战争和不对称战争的例子。好消息是,从1945年至今,因战争死亡的人数大幅下降。

Anonymous

The 18 UN expeditionary forces in Korea(not the UN itself since the USSR was a UN member)would have signed a treaty wit h North Korea,and Communist China that UN expeditionary forces agree to pull out of Korea.
Very important note:Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and People’s Republic of China was unrecognised by the UN.a nd most nations around the world during the Korean War.
The Chinese People’s Liberation Army who fought in Korea was designated as People’s Volunteer Army to avoid all out war with NATO(separate from UN).Many NATO members had a part in colonialism in China.The People’s Volunteer Army was eq valent to a mercenary army.A mercenary is an individual who takes part in military conflict for personal profit,is otherwise an outsider to the conflict,and is not a member of any other official military.In short terms,Mercenaries are non-combatants,and are not subject to Geneva Convention protection.
Nonetheless,Communist China sent their best from the PLA into the People’s Volunteer Army,and they was winning some ba ttles in 1953.
The PLA/PVA acquired large amounts of Soviet weaponry by late 1952.This meant the Chinese no longer relied on desperate massive wave attacks like they had in the early stages of the war 1950-1951.The Chinese starting by Jan 1953-July 1953 fired many artillery pieces,had anti-aircraft weapons,and engaged in tunnel warfare.By that point of the war,air power was ineffective for the UN.So,it is safe to say the Chinese was giving the 18 UN expeditionary forces a fight in the fin al stages of the war.As a result,the 18 UN expeditionary forces would have given up on South Korea.
In addition,Communist China was willing to continue the war because they had a lot to prove.China had a reputation of b eing militarily weak.China was submissive to foreign interests because they were weak.Aside from the military,Communist China wanted their right to a seat in the security council of the UN.Because of these additional reason Communist China fought in Korea to also get their recognition in the UN.
Aside from global reputation,Communist China was fighting 3 fronts.They were still engaged in the Civil War along the Taiwan Straits against KMT,insurgency in Tibet by Muslim KMT supporters,and insurgency in Soviet backed Turkmenistan(wh re the Uyrgurs live).So.China wanted to discourage the West from exploiting the situation by flexing in Korea.
I know many of you’ll believe that nukes would been let out.I personally don’t agree.Neither the U.S or USSR wanted n uclear annihilation.Nuclear threats are nothing but bluffs by great powers who can’t win wars fair and square.
在朝鲜的18支联合国远征军(不是联合国本身,因为苏联是联合国成员国)将与朝鲜和共产主义中国签署条约,联合国远征军将同意撤出朝鲜。
非常重要的一点:在朝鲜战争期间,朝鲜民主主义共和国和中华人民共和国没有得到联合国和世界上大多数国家的承认。
在朝鲜作战的中国人民解放军被命名为中国人民志愿军,以避免与北约(独立于联合国)爆发全面战争,因为许多北约成员国都参与过对中国的殖民。志愿军相当于雇佣兵,而雇佣兵是为了个人利益而参与军事冲突的个人,他们在其他方面是冲突的局外人,并且不是任何其他官方军队的成员。简而言之,雇佣兵是非战斗人员,不受《日内瓦公约》的保护。
尽管如此,中国还是把他们最好的部队从解放军派到了志愿军,并在1953年赢得了一些战斗。
到1952年底,志愿军获得了大量苏联武器,这意味着中国人不再像1950-1951年战争早期那样依赖于绝望的大规模的人海战术。从1953年1月到1953年7月,中国人发射了许多炮弹,他们拥有了防空武器并进行了隧道战。战争打到那个时候,空中力量对联合国军来说已经变得无效。因此,可以肯定地说,中国在战争的最后阶段给了18支联合国远征军一记重击,结果是18支联合国远征军对赢得这场战争已不抱希望。
此外,中国愿意继续战争,因为他们想证明很多东西。中国素有军事力量薄弱的名声,中国曾经屈服于外国的利益,因为他们很虚弱。除了军事上的东西,中国还希望拿回他们在联合国安理会的席位。由于这些额外的原因,中国在朝鲜作战以获得他们在联合国的承认。
除了全球声誉外,中国当时还面临三线作战,他们仍在台湾海峡沿岸发动针对国民党的内战、穆斯林国民党支持者在XZ叛乱,以及苏联支持的土库曼斯坦(Turkmenistan,即维Z人生活的地方,原文如此)叛乱。所以中国希望通过在朝鲜示弱来阻止西方利用这种局面。
我知道你们中的许多人相信核武器会被使用,我个人不同意这一点,因为美国和苏联都不想出现核毁灭的情况。核威胁不过是大国在无法公平地赢得战争时的虚张声势。

Arthur Beardsley,former Light Rail Transit Operator RetiredDLived in Portland

OR Depends.If McArthur hadn’t been fired by Truman and given free reign,Korea would be a united pro Western democracy.Bu tthe border would have been hotter than the Berlin Wall.Russia would have become part of the fray but the might of US industry,not that far removed from it’s WWII apogee would have most likely been able to defeat any Communist assault.We h ad The Bomb too.
If we had fought and won a war against the Communists the world would be much different than it is today.Vietnam wouldn’t have happened,or at least to the extent that it did and the US wouldn’t have felt pushed to be the first in arms and space.We might not have reached the moon until much later if at all.Certain things like transistor radios,(which led to electronic miniaturization and stuff like cell phones and high speed computers)would have been delayed.Even things like global warming might be worse as the US wouldn’t have been driven to be the first and best at everything,leaving us usi ng up coal and oil for a much longer time before exploring alternate energy sources.
But public opinion was against another war and the Russians had,or were close to having,the A Bomb.Truman feared that an escalation to full war could mean a nuclear war and he didn’t want to be known by the survivors of Earth as the Presid ent that caused the destruction of the world(and the central character in REM’s”The End Of The World”.)
视情况而定。如果麦克阿瑟没有被杜鲁门解雇并获得了自由支配权,朝鲜半岛将是一个统一的亲西方的民主国家,但其边境的形势会比柏林墙更严峻。俄罗斯会成为这场战争的一部分,但美国的工业力量离二战的最高点不远,因此它最有可能击败来自共产党的任何进攻。我们还有核武器。
如果我们曾与共产党作战并取得胜利,世界将与今天大不相同。越南战争不会发生,或者至少不会达到那样的程度,美国也不会觉得自己被迫成为武器和太空领域的领头羊。如果这样的事终将发生的话,我们可能要晚很久才能登上月球。某些东西,比如晶体管收音机(它导致了电子小型化,以及手机和高速计算机之类的东西)的发明将被推迟。像全球变暖这样的事情也可能会更糟,因为美国不会被驱使着在所有事情上都成为第一和最好的,让我们在探索替代能源之前消耗煤炭和石油的时间也会长得多。但公众奥论会反对另一场战争,因为俄罗斯人已经或即将拥有原子弹。杜鲁门会担心全面的战争升级可能意味着一场核战争,他不想被地球上的幸存者称为导致世界毁灭的总统。

John Boomershine

 

Depends a lot on what we mean by longer’and what,if anything,is happening any differently in terms of the tempo and nature of the fighting A few additional months of the attrition warfare that marked the final phases of the war in 1953 might not have made much overall difference other than running up the casualty counts.We in the West don’t know an awfullot about the Chinese/North Korean capacity to wage total war and to generate new major ground offensives,but from theoutside we can safely assume that they*would*have launched another major offensive against UN forces defending South Ko rea in 1953 if they had been able to,but they didn’t.Thus one can assume that the Communist side’s strategy had shifte d to a defensive posture along the 38th parallel and containment of US/UN/South Korean forces.
The US/UN/South Korean side was also tired of the fighting,and was settling down into a similar defensive chain of canto nments along the edge of the battle area,and a stable long-term ceasefire seemed possible,if not an actual armistice.
Since there was not much enthusiasm for continuing the conven tional war on either side by 1953,any agitation for a continuation of hostilities past the historical ceasefire agreement would have essentially had to convince a great many decisio n-makers on one side or the other that the Korean War was winnable if only"X".
For the Communist side,’X’probably meant pulling the Russians into the war to a much greater degree,providing additi onal ground troops and air power.The problem with this was that bringing the USSR into the Korean War was very likely to cause World War III to happen;the USA would have felt free in this case to ignore previous restrictions on strafing and b ombing targets within China and the Soviet unx’s Far East,to smash enemy airfields in both countries with unrestricted b ombing campaigns and to start using air power to interdict enemy troop movements toward Korea.Due to the difficulty the S oviets faced in terms of logistics-only one major railroad and maybe one badly-maintained highway connected the Soviet heartland to its Far Eastern territories-it is likely that few reinforcements of any kind could be sent to help the Chi nese in the Korean Peninsula,since entering the Korean war would allow UN and NATO forces in Europe to declare war on the USSR and its Eastern European puppet governments.
From that point,the Eisenhower Administration presides over a sudden repeat of World War II,this time with the Russiansand Chinese as mortal threats and with a definitive American superiority in nuclear warheads and warhead delivery systems The global war which would have escalated from Soviet entry into the Korean War would have looked a lot like’OperationDropshot 1957,an American military plan for conventional/nuclear conflict with the Communist block,but perhaps withou tthe elements of Communist strategic surprise and initial offensive success that Dropshot’s war planners envisioned.
For the American side,’X’meant reviving MacArthur’s request for nuclear weapons release and attempting to punch larg e enough holes in the enemy front lines in Korea with A-Bomb strikes.These sorts of strikes would have exposed allied troops in Korea to long-term health risks due to radiation hazards in nukes areas they would have been required to advance th rough.Yes,much ground could have been taken this way and it wasn’t very likely that the USSR would be able to retaliateeffectively in 1953 with whatever nuclear weapons it had in its inventory only four years after its own successful nuclear test;China and North Korea had no nuclear capability at all in those days.But another US first-use of nuclear weaponswould have amounted to a tremendous propaganda coup for the Conmunists;they could easily stand back and show the world t at America intended to back up its’corrupt international hegemony’by wielding nuclear firepower in the most cavalier f ashion imaginable.Thousands of Allied soldiers suffering from radiation sickness after being exposed to the after-effects of nearby tactical-nuclear warfare would also quickly erode US home front morale.
这在很大程度上取决于我们所说的“更长”是什么意思,以及在战斗的节奏和性质方面发生了什么变化(如果有的话)。1953年标志着战争最后阶段的额外几个月的消耗战除了增加伤亡人数外,可能不会产生太大的总体影响。我们西方人对中国/朝鲜发动全面战争和发动新的大规模地面进攻的能力知之甚少,但从外部来看,我们可以有把握地认为,如果他们有能力的话,他们会在1953年对保卫韩国的联合国军发动另一次大规模的进攻,但事实并非如此。因此,我们可以认为,中国的战略已经转向了沿三八线进行防御,并遏制美国/联合国/韩国军队。
美国/联合国/韩国方面也厌倦了这场战斗,并在战区边缘安排了一个类似的防御链,长期稳定的停火似乎是可能的(如果不是真正的停战的话)
由于双方在1953年之前对继续进行常规战争没有多少热情,因此,在历史性的停火协议之后继续进行敌对行动的任何鼓动,基本上都意味着必须说服一方或另一方的许多决策者(只要”XXXX”,就可以赢得这场朝鲜战争)。
对中国来说,”XXXX”可能意味着将俄罗斯人更大程度地拉到战争中来,让他们提供更多的地面部队和空中力量。但问题在于,将苏联带入朝鲜战争很可能会导致第三次世界大战的发生;在这种情况下,美国可以无视此前对中国和苏联远东地区的目标进行扫射和轰炸的限制,以不受限制的轰炸行动摧毁两国的敌方机场,并开始使用空中力量阻止敌方部队向朝鲜移动。由于苏联在后勤方面面临的困难——它只有一条主要的铁路,也许还有一条维护不善的公路将其心脏地带与远东地区连接起来一一它很可能不会派造任何形式的增援部队来帮助在朝鲜半岛的中国人,因为参加朝鲜战争将使得联合国和北约驻欧洲的部队向苏联及其东欧愧偶政府宣战。
从那时起,艾森豪威尔政府将突然重演第二次世界大战,这一次俄罗斯和中国是致命的威胁。美国在核弹头和运载系统方面具有绝对优势,因苏联加入朝鲜战争而开始升级的全球战争看起来将很像“吊射行动1957”(该计划预计对苏联100个城市和200个目标投射300枚核弹头和战略轰炸,以彻底摧毁苏联85%的战争潜力),这是一项美国针对与共产主义集团的常规/核冲突的军事计划,但可能不具备“吊射行动1957″规划者所设想的共产主义战略突袭和初期进攻成功的要素。
对美方来说,”XXXX”意味着满足麦克阿瑟使用核武器的要求,并试图用原子弹在朝鲜的敌方前线打上打开足够大的缺口。这种打击会让驻韩盟军部队长期面临健康风险,因为他们将面临核辐射区的辐射危害。是的,这样做本可以取得很大的进展,苏联不太可能在1953年用其库存中的任何核武器进行有效的报复,因为其四年前才成功进行核试验;当时,中国和朝鲜根本没有核能力。但是,如果美国再次首次使用核武器,这对共产主义者来说将是一场巨大的宣传;他们可以轻易地退后,然后向世界表明美国打算以想象得到的最傲慢的方式使用核武器来支持其“腐败的国际霸权”。而数以干计的盟军士兵会在暴露于战术核战争的辐射中后患上了辐射病,这也将很快削弱美国本土的士气。

Michael Ciao,lives in San Francisco Bay Area

The Chinese forces would just kept on coming regardless of the losses.
Back then Chinese lives were cheap or worthless,they just suffered millions of combat losses during the Japanese invasio n and civil war,C couldn’t care less to lose a few millions more.
C took in millions of Nationalist POWs,it was difficult to feed and imprison millions of men,they were ordered to go to Korea as”volunteers”to fight,combat losses was a solution to a big internal problem.C didn’t care about the losses,10 to 1 or 100 to 1 kill was okay.
At the end of Korean War,over 20,000 Chinese POWs were released to Taiwan,they were given the choice,they choose to go to Taiwan instead of China,because they were Nationalists.
Kissinger and Nixon were shocked when Mao told them American could drop nuclear bomb on China to kill millions of Chinese,they didn’t care,they had too many people,China has many more people.It’s hard for Americans to understand it,but it made perfect sense to the Chinese people.Life was cheap.
中国军队将不顾损失继续赶来。
当时中国人的生命是的,他们在日本侵略和内战中遭受了数百万的战斗损失……
朝鲜战争结束时,两万多中国战俘被释放到台湾省,他们有选择权,但他们选择去台湾省而不是中国大陆,因为他们是民族主义者。
…他们对中国人的不在乎感到震惊,中国有太多的人。美国人很难理解这一点,但对中国人来说这是完全有道理的.

Clayton Green

except they didn’t”just kept on coming regardless of the losses”otherwise,they wouldn’t have agreed to”peace”talks.
其他的我都认可,除了你说的他们会“不顾损失继续赶来”。否则他们就不会同意“和谈”。

Michael Ciao

The goal was a dividend Korea,strategically more beneficial long term,they never wanted one Korea,whichever ways.
他们的目标是分裂朝鲜半岛,从长远来看,这在战略上对他们更有利。他们从来不想要一个统一的朝鲜半岛,无论哪种方式。

Clayton Green

no matter the whys&wherefors,they wouldn’t have”just kept on coming regardless of the losses”,as you stated they would.
不管是什么原因,他们都不会像你说的那样“不顾损失继续赶来”。

Hanhwe Kim,researcher on South Korean POWs still held in North Korea DLives in San Francisco

The premise of this question is not realistic.
The Chinese intervened the way they did(staging an ambush against the UN forces with hastily deployed light infantry)pr ecisely beca use they had bet they could defeat MacArthur.They knew they would have difficulties fighting the heavily arme d Americans but also knew their forces(veterans of the Chinese Civil War and WW2)outclassed the South Koreans who made up the bulk of the UN forces.The Chinese also bet that the Americans did not know that they had already deployed into Nort h Korea and had significant forces behind the front line of the UN forces that could attack the logistics tail.
In that situation,once the Chinese could achieve operational and strategic surprise on the UN forces,there was no wayt he UN forces could have”held off”in the winter of 1950-51.The South Korean forces could be overrun,especially at ni ght.The Americans could be cut off from their logistics tail which they depended for the fuel and ammunition without whic h American armor and artillery would be useless.
The only situation where the UN forces could have held anything in North Korea is if MacArthur did not ignore the Chinesescouts the UN forces were capturing in increasing numbers as they advanced into North Korea and took time to establish st rong points around the key logistics depots the Americans(who had most of the firepower)relied on as well as aggressivel ylooking for Chinese forces in North Korea.The advance into North Korea by the UN forces would overall look more like th eUS Marines and X Corps advance into the Chosin Reservoir rather than the race to the Yalu River.
Since the Chinese could no longer have operational surprise,but the UN forces are advancing more slowly,they probably w ould advanced into North Korea with their heavy weapons rather than just the light infantry forces that made up the actual People’s Volunteer Army.
Mao could not afford to have a pro-American unified Korea on the Yalu river,and Stalin would not want that either.So th ey would have intervened openly and forcefully to save whatever is left of North Korea.Stalin might have even provided the air support he originally promised.And after a few skirmishes where both the Americans and Chinese suffer painfully(bu tnot the kind of catastrophe both sides actually suffered our actual timeline)they probably would dig in something simil ar to the current DMZ,but a few hundred kilometers to the North.
Since neither Stalin or the Americans could afford to spend the resources needed to unify the peninsula(but also could n ot afford to lose it entirely)the end result would be similar to what we have today-but perhaps an even smaller North K orea.
这个问题的前提是不现实的。
中国人以他们的方式进行了干预(用仓促部署的轻步兵伏击联合国军),原因是因为他们估计自己能打败麦克阿瑟。他们知道与全副武装的美国人作战会有困难,但他们也知道他们的军队(历经过中国内战和第二次世界大战的老兵)比占联合国军大多数的韩国军队更优秀。中国人还估计美国人并不知道他们已经部署到了朝鲜,而且他们在联合国军的前线有大量的部队,可以攻击联合国军的后勤基地。
在这种情况下,一旦中国能够对联合国军实现战役和战略上的突袭,联合国军就不可能在1950-51年的冬天“坚持”下来。韩国军队可能会被揉捏,尤其是在夜间。美国人的后勤可能会被切断,他们依赖于燃料和弹药,没有这些,美国的装甲和大炮将毫无用处。
联合国军在朝鲜唯一能够控制局面的可能是麦克阿瑟没有忽视中国的侦察兵(当他们进入朝鲜时,联合国部队抓获了越来越多的中国侦察兵),并花时间在美军(拥有大部分火力)所依赖的关键后勤基地周围建立据点以及在朝鲜积极寻找中国军队。如果这样,联合国军进军朝鲜的行动总体上看起来会更像是美国海军陆战队和X军团在进军朝鲜的长津湖水库,而不是争夺鸭绿江。这样的话,中国不可能再进行突袭作战,但联合国军的推进速度也会更慢,所以中国军队很可能会带着重型武器进入朝鲜,而不仅仅是组成人民志愿军的轻步兵部队。
中国接受不了在鸭绿江边上建立一个亲美的统一的朝鲜,斯大林也不希望这样。因此,他们会公开并有力地进行干预,以拯救北朝鲜剩下的一切,斯大林甚至可能会提供他最初承诺的空中支援。在经历了几场中美双方都遭受痛苦的小规模冲突(但不是双方实际遭受的那种灾难)之后,他们可能会设立类似于现在的非军事区之类的东西,但地点会在三八线北面几百公里的地方。由于斯大林和美国都无力承担统一半岛所需的资源(但也无法接受完全失去它),最终的结果将与我们今天所看到的类似但北朝鲜的面积可能会更小一些。

Lytiek Gethers,I read a whole lot on Korean War

Mao Zedong said in one of his speeches at a CPC congress when the war broke out that”China was going to fight to the la st man”.Mao was basically saying that he was willing to take high causalities as long as he could until the UN considere d an armistice(in which he filled that goal).
So,if the UN was able to hold off the Chinese in North Korea,the Chinese would relentlessly keep charging at night with huger numbers.And during the day,the UN frontlines would be constantly harassed by Chinese mortars and snipers.
战争爆发时,毛在一次中国党代表大会上的讲话中说:“中国要战斗到最后一个人”。他基本上是说,在联合国考虑停战(他在停战协议中实现了这一目标)之前,他愿意承担重大伤亡。
因此,如果联合国军能够阻止中国人在朝鲜的行动,中国人将在夜间以更大的数字无情地冲锋。而在白天,联合国军的前线会不断受到中国的迫击炮和狙击手的骚扰。

Gerald Cline,former Vietnam Veteran(Medic USAF)(1968-1974)

If the Peoples Liberation Army had failed to roll the UN Army back out of most of North Korea in the winter of 1950 it islikely the Soviet Red Army would have intervened in the conflict,spreading the war and likely triggering World War III a nd the use of nuclear weapons.I remember hearing an interview in the early gos with a retired Soviet officer from that era who was deployed in Siberia at the time commenting on the fact the Red Army was on alx to move south into the Korean Peninsula if the Peoples Liberation Army failed.The Korean War almost triggered World War III,just like the Cuban Missile C rises and the Yom Kippur War later in the Cold War.
如果中国人民志愿军未能在1950年冬季将联合国军赶出北朝鲜的大部分地区,那么苏联红军很可能会介入冲突,扩大战争,并可能引发第三次世界大战及使用核武器。我记得在90年代初,我听过一次采访,一位当时部署在西伯利亚的苏联退役军官说,如果中国人民志愿军失败,苏联红军就要南下朝鲜半岛。朝鲜战争几乎引发了第三次世界大战,就像古巴导弹危机和冷战后期的赎,罪日战争一样。

Bruce Brews,24 years active duty,prof,mil,edu.,college hist.Courses,Lives in Massachusetts1997-present

The fact of the matter is that UN forces were lucky to escape.The best MacArthur could have done was push north to Korea’s waist north of Pyongyang and dig in.That would have shortened his overextended lines and forced the Chinese to frontal ly attack prepared UN positions supported by massed artillery and airpower.That might have worked,but would have left a”rump state”between China and the front lines.
The Chinese were determined to keep UN forces away from their border,so they surely would have done anything they could to prevent the UN from moving north to the Yalu.At the same time,American public opinion was not in favor of the war,so expanding it enough to drive out the Chinese completely was politically out of the question.
Most likely,had the Chinese failed to drive UN forces out of North Korea,the Chinese would either have propped up Kim Il-sung’s regime or installed a puppet regime to administer the rump state.They could have just absorbed the remaining No rth Korean territory into China,but I believe they would have preferred to keep it separate to serve as a”trip wire,”preventing direct American access to Chinese territory.
事实是,联合国军很幸运能够侥幸逃脱。麦克阿瑟所能做的最好的事情就是把北朝鲜推到朝鲜半岛腰部的平壤以北,然后掘壕防守。这将缩短他过度扩张的战线,迫使中国人正面进攻有大量炮兵和空军支援的联合国阵地。这也许管用,但会在中国和前线之间留下一个“残余国家”
中国人决心让联合国军远离他们的边界,因此他们肯定会尽一切努力阻止联合国军向北进军到鸭绿江。同时,美国的舆论也不赞成这场战争,因此扩大战争的范围以彻底赶走中国人在政治上是不可能的。
最有可能的是,如果中国没有把联合国军赶出北朝鲜,那么中国要么支持金日成政权,要么建立一个愧偶政权来管理这个“残余国家”。他们本可以把朝鲜剩余的领土并入中国,但我相信他们更愿意把它分开,并使之作为“绊线(trip wire)”来阻止美国直接进入中国的领土。